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Heyneke Meyer

Ashfak Mohamed

HEYNEKE MEYER became the 12th post-isolation Springbok coach on Friday. We sat down with him for an exclusive interview afterwards to find out what this passionate rugby man is all about.

This must be a big day in your life, as it has come on for a long time now!

It is actually a big day for me, even though most of it is finished already. But I must say, if you are younger, it is more of an ego thing – for yourself, you are happy for yourself. And I know that I’ve said it a few times now, and I don’t want to curry favour with anybody ... But it is more of a responsibility now. I am excited, but it is about more than that. It is like a strange type of exuberance, as you know that you carry the hopes and dreams of the whole country, and that is a really big, big responsibility.

Most people say that I shouldn’t see it like that, but that is how I see it. I really want to make a difference in people’s lives. So, I am happy, but I am realistic enough to know that not everything will be smooth sailing all the time. This is almost like a honeymoon period now, and the time will come when ... I am just so unbelievably humbled at the moment, it is massive (to become the Springbok coach). Such things don’t usually happen to guys like me ... It only happens to other people! I am just a platteland boy who comes from Nelspruit, and these things only happen to other people. So, for me, it is really a major privilege to be the Springbok coach.

You’ve had great success at the Bulls, but you had time to put the structures in place that you are famous for. But you won’t have the time for that at the Boks, so how do you view that aspect?

It will be difficult. There needs to be a national plan in place where we decide this is more or less how we will play, how we will defend, how we will drive, and so on. You can’t expect every Super Rugby coach to coach exactly like you, but you must at least have a starting point, and we have to work on that. But you can’t coach the national team. My philosophy is that you will have to do a lot of coaching through the franchises, upliftment of the franchises, and you need to get the buy-in from them, because they work with the players for 90 percent of the time. You work with them for 10 percent.

So, if you don’t have a good relationship with them, then you will be in trouble from day one. I think, what will make things easier for me is the fact that I was a Super 14 coach for a long time, so I know that you can’t always get everything you want, because if that guy loses, then he is gone.

Obviously, we have seen in New Zealand that they had their national players together for two days ... But I understand that you have to win in South Africa, otherwise you are gone. So, you have to get great buy-in from them, and one of my main tasks will be to establish very good relationships with them. I’ve been lucky enough to coach one or two of them, and I also have a very good relationship with John Mitchell. I would want to go and learn from them, as I am willing to learn a lot and be of service. By spending time with them, I will learn a lot and also put things in place. There isn’t a lot of time, and you have to start soon, but they are also busy and have things that they need to do. But I would really want to put a national strategy in place and filter it through the teams.

When Peter de Villiers was appointed, he spoke a lot about getting the Boks to play more attacking rugby and scoring more tries. Do you want to implement the same gameplan you’ve used with great success at the Bulls? We saw the Reds 92-3 game ...

You must play and concentrate on the opponents’ weak points. The worse they do in those areas, the more you punish them there. Obviously, you want to play good rugby, but it depends on the type of opposition. If you look at Super Rugby, the Reds kicked the most and won. But people say “Look at how they play”. Australia also kicked the most at the World Cup.

But it is not just about kicking and running. There needs to be a blend, and you need to use your strengths to win. If you look at the highest levels at the World Cup – from the quarters and semis – then there was about one try in every game. So, it is too simplistic to say that you are going to play in a certain way. You have to play the situation.

Sometimes, for example, if I am in my 22 and they drop three guys back and it’s a five-on-three, then you run every ball! If they come up and it’s a five-on-five, then you can’t run and you have to kick it behind them. That is what I will tell my players. Some days you run all day, and on others, you kick everything. That is what players need to adjust to, what they have to learn. There isn’t a set thing, you must play the situation. They must play to win.

Is there a misconception about the Bulls that they play 10-man rugby and kick a lot?

Definitely, I think so. What people don’t realise is that I was part of the Stormers coaching set-up that year with the Men in Black (1999), and we played some of the most exciting rugby. I mean, Alan (Solomons) was the coach and he must take the credit. But I coached the forwards, and Bobby (Skinstad) was at his absolute best. And, if you look at that pack, few of those guys were Boks, but that whole pack became Boks. I was also with Nick (Mallett) in the 1999 World Cup, where we also played exciting rugby.

So, it is too simplistic to say that you are going to play like this and like that, but there are misconceptions and I realise that. Unfortunately, with the top nations, defence is above attack, and you have to see if you can break that down.

In terms of the captaincy, a lot of people are talking about Schalk Burger. But is it too early to say?

It is definitely too early to say. I am going to spend a lot of time with the players, and to pull a name out of the hat now wouldn’t be the right thing to do. I am looking for a specific captain who is clever strategically and who knows exactly what I want. So, it is not to say that I am going to appoint a captain for a long-term period. I may look to appoint someone in the short term and then ...

So it won’t be someone for the four years?

No, I won’t do that. I first have to discuss these things with SA Rugby, but I am not a big supporter of appointing a captain for four years, as form is a non-negotiable for me. You can’t keep a guy there for four years and then if you want to replace him after two years, you are forced to keep him. He must earn his place. It is like appointing me for eight years.

Is there a chance of Victor Matfield coming out of retirement to play again?

I think very highly of Victor. I don’t think that you can just throw away his experience, and it is definitely something to look at. But I can’t confirm anything.

As a player?

At this stage, I haven’t thought that far! I haven’t spoken to Victor for a long time, so at this point ... I don’t want to say yes or no, because I haven’t spoken to Victor for a while. It would be presumptuous of me to want him to play, but then he doesn’t even want to play! That is why it is important to hear every player’s wish, and then decide. But I can tell you that I definitely hold his insights as a player in high regard, and he can certainly make a difference to any side. That is why I brought him into the Bulls set-up (as a consultant) to do lineout work. I definitely believe in using former players, specialists. I am not about stroking my ego, that it’s “my way” or else. I want to make use of many people, but they must know who is in charge. But I do rate Victor highly.

Do you want a technical advisor, an assistant coach or specialists in your management team?

I have thought about it, but I haven’t discussed it with Saru as the council only chose me as coach today. But I want the best of everything: if it means 10 specialists, then that’s what we’ll do. If it means five forwards coaches, then that’s what we’ll do. I will look at what’s the best, and I will consult with the players and everyone as to how it worked in the past, as I don’t think that you should just throw all of that away. I would also want to speak to all the old coaches, and then put systems in place. But I believe that you must cover every little aspect. You can’t go in with general guys against the best in the world. You must get specialists in, to do certain things for me.

The likes of Fourie du Preez, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Bakkies Botha and Jaque Fourie are all overseas. Do you want them to play in South Africa?

Those are all world-class players, and many of them are still young. There isn’t a prescribed policy with regards to overseas-based players, but again, it is about what is best for the team. If picking them is the best thing for the team, and I will decide that with SA Rugby, then they must play. If it isn’t the best thing for the team – they aren’t here, they aren’t loyal, etc – then they won’t. Of course, Super Rugby form will definitely come into it. We would really like to go and see those guys overseas and hear what their plans are going forward. We would be silly to just throw everyone away.