MMC for finance Rabelani Dagada answers questions from Janet Smith
JS: How did the Israel trip come about?
RD: I was not the only person invited. There were other opinion-makers, eight of us in total. Before I accepted, I asked who was going to pay and I was given the names of some genuine business people. I felt comfortable. I asked was the trip solely to Israel, because there are issues. They said it would predominate on Israel, but we would also visit the West Bank. I wanted to know why we wouldn't go to Gaza, and they said it was safety, which I fully agreed with.
We did meet some of the leadership of Palestine, but the focus was on how innovation and technology can contribute to economic development, and those are my areas of research. People were critical. In their view, undertaking this trip constituted favouritism towards Israel. I was insulted, because I am critical of both leaderships: Palestine and Israel.
JS: Israel has many discriminatory laws which sound, and are implemented, like in pre-1990s South Africa. Yet you say it is not an apartheid state.
RD: What I said was I was surprised by the generosity of Israel towards Gaza, also to the West Bank. Remember the Palestinians are in a war with Israel, yet Israel supplies water and electricity, obviously not for free, but they could stop it. Secondly, goods have to go to Gaza via Israel's roads, but Israel agrees. Interestingly, you would assume that other Arab states would be more sympathetic to Gaza and the West Bank, but look at Egypt. It has totally closed the borders.
According to my own analysis and based on interviews with prominent Arab opinion-makers, it became clear that Israel was not an apartheid state. I'm not aware of discriminatory laws.
There are certain practices which, when you look at them at face value, make sense. Arab children go predominantly to their own schools, which suits them, because of religious practices on a Friday; the same with Jewish children on a Saturday. Some Arabs we interviewed said they were much happier than Arabs elsewhere in the Middle East. One said he would rather than be a second citizen of Israel than a first citizen of Saudi Arabia.
JS: You were surprised that Israel "funds" Gaza. But it has also blockaded and bombed Gaza and has killed thousands of Palestinians. It's engaged in an illegal occupation. Are you comfortable with your views? What does the DA say?
RD: I have been critical of Israel's occupation of Palestinian land. That is highly improper. Secondly, Israel will never gain peace through the defence force. But I don't want to talk on behalf of the DA. I believe South Africans can be mediators between the peoples of Israel and Palestine, and we're not doing that. But I'm not in favour of South Africa not doing business with Israel.
JS: Are you a member of AfriForum?
RD: I've never attended an AfriForum meeting, but twice I had meetings with the chief executive, and one of the things that I asked him was whether AfriForum was concerned only with the rights of white people, in particular Afrikaners. He said no, that's not true. He gave me examples. Still, I thought, nah man. So I applied and was accepted for membership. I got what I wanted, which was to achieve that shock, especially because I was also critical of the ANC. I've let my membership lapse now, but I achieved what I wanted.
We must never write people off. One of the things I've picked up from AfriForum people is that they feel they are being treated as second citizens, just as Arab people do in Israel. Now, I feel we must never have this; for social cohesion in our country, we must never tolerate that.
JS: You've made controversial statements about BEE.
RD: I am 100 percent in support of it. I am also in support of affirmative action, but you can get problems. For example, you have a position for head of police, then you put a social worker in charge. That is blatant affirmative action, and that is wrong. You also can't have black empowerment only benefiting those close to the ANC. I want to implement this properly, ensure that procurement policies support BEE, small businesses and local production. We're going to take money from some of the Parks Tau vanity projects and send money to capital projects like housing and economic development. We want to see an end to the high printing and catering costs and every manager having a cellphone.