I oppose his perceived corruption

ANC President Jacob Zuma and Mathews Phosa File picture: Bonile Bam/Independent Media

ANC President Jacob Zuma and Mathews Phosa File picture: Bonile Bam/Independent Media

Published Dec 10, 2016

Share

Mathews Phosa tells Ryland Fisher why he believes President Jacob Zuma needs to step down.

Former ANC treasurer-general Mathews Phosa, now a successful businessman, says he has nothing against President Jacob Zuma but still feels he must step down.

“He is my president and he has been more than a comrade for more than 43 years. I’ve got nothing against the president, but I have many things against his perceived corruption,” Phosa said.

“That is the parting of the ways and there will be no compromise. If you are not going to tackle corruption and inspire public confidence, then you are creating tension, and we must address that tension.”

Phosa, 64, is one of many ANC stalwarts who have recently spoken out against Zuma.

His struggle credentials are impeccable, having been regional commander of the ANC in Mozambique and one of the first four ANC members to return in 1990 after the party was unbanned to start the negotiations with the National Party regime. He was also the head of the ANC’s legal department.

He became premier of Mpuma- langa after the first democratic elections in 1994, a member of the ANC’s national executive committee in 1999 and was elected treasurer-general at its 52nd national conference in Polokwane in 2007.

Born in Mbombela township in Nelspruit, Phosa speaks nine languages and has published books of poetry in English and Afrikaans. He chairs the boards of several private companies and organisations.

Phosa said he took issue with people who blamed South Africa’s economic woes on the president and those who said it started before his term.

“My view is not about when our economic woes started, but rather about what a leader is expected to do, from time to time. A leader must lead and not look for excuses because, if you are going to lead with a rear-view mirror, you will never lead. You’ve got to say, I am finding it like this and I am fixing it.

“Obviously, the whole leadership in government must take collective responsibility for successes and failures. They have the political power, and the challenge to them is to change the investment environment.

“The buck stops with the cabinet and its leader, the president. It’s not only him alone, but all of them. They must steer the ship in a direction which inspires economic confidence.

“No one else can do it, not the private sector. It is government. It is political. Who fired Nene? It is not (the) private sector. It’s him. Who changed ministers of finance in three days? It’s him. Who created Nkandla? It’s him. Who’s fighting for family interests? It’s him. Let’s speak straight turkey. This is the truth.”

Phosa said that if you are unable to lead, then you must step down.

“There is a moment, in terms of the principles of leadership, that you should be able to say, if I continue not to lead properly, the voters will punish me, and the local government elections showed that.

“Over and above that, the constitution is very clear: you have to take accountability for your actions. If you are unable to lead, you should step down and make way for those who will be able to lead. You should not hang in there. A good leader is one who knows when to leave.”

Phosa denied that he has benefited from government tenders or the government’s black economic empowerment policies. He said he was in business before he went into exile in 1985.

“There are cases when I have been considered because I am black, and I admit that. But I will never say to you that I went to plead for a tender. None of my businesses arises from a government tender. That is my pride. I do corporate-to-corporate deals. I only do government deals when the government needs my services and buys it. I’ve never been enriched by the state.

“I was in business long before the government had BEE policies. Before I left for exile, I was a businessman and there was no BEE. I was a lawyer. I had a construction company, a township shop, and a mortuary. I am not a beneficiary of BEE, because there was no BEE when I was a businessman. I never depended for my business success on BEE policy. I am one of those old guys who made it on their own.

“When the BEE platform was opened, I obviously benefited. But I was never given a free share. And I have never asked for tenders and I will not, until I die.”

Phosa said he was aware of criticism from some young people that those who were involved in the Struggle did not do enough to advance the transformation agenda after 1994.

“I have heard that view. Every generation will determine the frontiers of their struggle, their own framework. We determined our framework to be to lay the foundation for a democratic South Africa, under the leadership of Nelson Mandela.

“He was a great leader, he led us well, given our own objective conditions at the time. It is that constitutional framework which creates this comfort and loose talk today. Sometimes I laugh at this loose talk, because it does not appreciate the objective conditions of 1994 when the balance of forces was totally against the liberation movement.

“This loose talk comes from a comfort position. They talk because they have chocolate in their mouth and they have no idea that once there was no chocolate. It didn’t exist. The blacks had no rights. We fought for those rights to exist, and now they are there.

“They forget that Mandela did not have that comfort zone. He had to fight apartheid. He had to convince his oppressors that he had dignity. He had to convince them to put certain rights in the constitution.

“It is their right to criticise that period, but they can’t just critique. Critique must be informed by facts. They must also take the struggle forward. We who were the founding fathers of the constitution, who wrote it, must not resist a critique by later generations. It’s a healthy engagement with what we did, but how do you take it further? You don’t have to be negative and too super-right about it.

“The constitution is a living organism and, if you act within the framework of the law, you will be able to say that maybe some of those clauses were valid at the time, but now we have moved on. We are building a nation and trying to reconcile ourselves. This is not an event, but a journey.

“If there are things that look like they were not addressed at the time, let’s address them now. A balanced approach to this matter is important. We must accept that we dealt with our challenges as best we could, and that the next generation will seek other alternatives.

“I was doing a legal opinion this week, based on Thuli Madonsela saying to the president that the chief justice should appoint the chairman of the commission (after the State of Capture report). The constitution, as it stands now, says that the president must appoint a commission of inquiry. But she is saying that he is conflicted, and those who drafted the constitution did not foresee that.

“Thuli was right to do that, not to feed the crocodiles, but to say let’s find an objective platform to deal with the matter. If the constitution does not prescribe for it, the Constitutional Court will be right to say let’s close the obvious gap that the constitutional writers did not foresee.

“We did not foresee that the president would be in charge of his own case.

“The constitutional writers did not foresee this. They could not include everything in the constitution.

“Our constitutional framework is a framework for the future. No one can deny that it put democracy in place. But those who wrote it could not have closed all the gaps.

“We must humbly accept that there are gaps and the younger generation must take it forward.

“It is their duty, but we must not be negative about them critiquing that period. They will also be critiqued by future generations.”

(This is part of an interview done for Impumelelo empowerment magazine.)

Related Topics: