Johannesburg - Former intelligence minister, Ronnie Kasrils, says he blew the whistle when he discovered there were state intelligence agents who were not working for the state but were doing work for Luthuli House.
He was talking to Independent Newspapers about the so-called “spy tapes” – conversations between then-Scorpions head, Leonard McCarthy and the then-National Director of Public Prosecutions, Bulelani Ngcuka, which apparently led to the dropping of corruption charges against President Jacob Zuma.
At the time of the conversations, predominantly held in 2007, Zuma was deputy president of the ANC.
Kasrils was the intelligence minister at the time. “I blew the whistle and I figured out that there were (intelligence) agents, that there were officers who were not working for the state but were doing… (work) for Luthuli House,” he said.
But the “strains and suspicions” which the ANC had struggled to shake off since its unbanning and ascent to government, had “increased under the Zuma-administration”.
“It was already there with (ex-president Thabo) Mbeki. I’m not saying it was crystal clear, but you can’t compare Zuma’s dismissals and removals of (people) to what happened under Mbeki and me,” he said.
He was referring to recent reports that three senior intelligence bosses, including former State Security director-general Dennis Dhlomo, would be sent on diplomatic postings because their loyalty to Zuma was in question.
Kasrils commissioned a report in about 2006 to look into problemsfacing intelligence structure which, among others, recommended greater oversight and safeguards of state security structures.
But despite the report having been tabled by the cabinet in September 2008, it has never been accepted by the Zuma-administration, nor have many of its recommendations been implemented.
“(The) incoming government and Parliament, by the ANC-side, weren’t interested in the necessary reforms. They shelved (the report) which argued for reforming the security service to stop shenanigans going on and getting worse,” Kasrils says.
“I’ve constantly said we are moving towards more and more conspiracy theories – (eg) the (MK) veterans calling Madonsela a CIA agent – this (phenomenon) abounds,” he said.
“You get it from the leadership of the ANC, SACP, government ministers and MK veterans. They use it as a way to defame opponents, as character assassinations and intelligence services machinations are part of that.”
Kasrils is cautious not to pre-empt the legal processes under way, but stopped short of saying the tapes would reveal there was no political conspiracy against Zuma.
“Everything now will depend on an assessment of tapes. And (DA leader, Helen) Zille will put them up to legal scrutiny. So it will be interesting to (see) if there’s anything relevant to show government manipulation by the NPA and Scorpions,” he said.
Meanwhile Zille has asked in her latest newsletter, called SA Today, if it was legitimate for an investigator and prosecutor to discuss “a joint strategy” for prosecuting someone against whom they had prima facie evidence of serious crimes.
“This is especially pertinent in the light of the fact that the Scorpions were established precisely to enable closer co-operation between investigators and prosecutors in the fight against corruption,” she said.
She also asked if it was acceptable for state officials to try preventing someone against whom there was prima facie evidence of corruption, from becoming state president.
Further, she questioned whether conversations over the timing of corruption charges, before or after the ANC’s Polokwane conference, were still material now.
“Some of these questions would have been debated at length within the deeply divided NPA, during 2008 and early 2009…” Zille said.
But the DA will only have access to the minutes and summaries of these discussions, which are contained in the documents that form the “record of decision”.
The Star