Closing the book on ownership


If you have a new Kindle or an iPad, then you are probably still grinning at the ease with which you can buy an electronic book (ebook) and glowing with the prospect of owning a whole new library. But you won’t be buying and owning those ebooks so much as renting them.

Put another way, your rights to most ebooks are “managed”, and in most cases you buy the right to read an ebook rather than ownership of the work.

Local online retailer kalahari.net, which rolled out sales of ebooks in March, says as much on its website, under the terms and conditions (T&Cs). “All ebooks are the exclusive property of the publisher or its licensors. ... When purchasing an ebook from kalahari, you will be purchasing the right to download such ebook from the relevant publisher’s website ...”

By quoting kalahari.net, I don’t mean to single it out for criticism. It is done only to make the point about what has quickly become the standard in selling ebooks and how different that is from the norms of the ink-and-paper world, where you own a book in the sense that you can bequeath it, lend it out, give it away or sell it once you have finished with it.

But first a step back. You can read an ebook – a shorthand word for any electronic, book-like document, including emagazines – on a PC, laptop, netbook or smartphone. But converts swear there is nothing to compare to the experience of the Apple iPad or a dedicated ebook reader (or e-reader for short), such as the Kindle from Amazon.

In July 2009, Amazon deleted from the Kindles of its customers paid-for copies of George Orwell’s 1984. And just to prove that no book is more equal than another to Big Brother, it deleted paid-for copies of Animal Farm, too. The reason was that the company that had supplied the ebooks to Amazon was not authorised to do so under copyright law.

“Digital books bought for the Kindle are sent to it over a wireless network. Amazon can also use that network ... apparently to make them vanish,” The New York Times wrote on July 17, 2009.

It went on: “Amazon appears to have deleted other purchased ebooks from Kindles recently. Customers commenting on web forums reported the disappearance of digital editions of the Harry Potter books and the novels of Ayn Rand over similar issues.”

All the affected customers were refunded the money they had paid for the Orwell books, and Amazon chief executive Jeff Bezos gave a fulsome public apology and promised never to do it again, but the incident powerfully brought home the point that the world has changed. The meaning of “to buy” and “to own” is more fluid now that a company can auto-delete something for which you have paid. The notion of privacy has also become more elastic.

“It’s like Barnes & Noble sneaking into our homes in the middle of the night, taking some books that we’ve been reading off our nightstands, and leaving us a cheque on the coffee table,” wrote technology blogger David Pogue of The New York Times.

Amazon had the means to do this because content is downloaded wirelessly to a Kindle via Amazon’s 3G Whispernet network. There is Whispernet coverage in South Africa, too. It keeps the e-reader linked to Amazon and allows Amazon, if it is so inclined, to peep at what page you last read, at what notes you have made on your ebook, and so on, which obviously raises privacy eyebrows.

And Amazon had the ability to delete the Orwell ebooks because of digital rights management (DRM).

DRM can be described as “any technological measure that restricts what you can do with a file”, says Arthur Attwell, the chief executive of EBW, a digital publishing and consulting company.

There are three different DRM schemes for ebooks: Amazon’s Kindle DRM; Apple’s FairPlay; and Adobe (which is used by most other e-readers). These three systems are incompatible.

“There is no way to move books across systems,” Attwell says. “When you buy an ebook that uses one of these systems, you are locked out of the other systems [when you want to access that book].”

You can read titles bought from Amazon only on a Kindle and Kindle applications. Titles bought from the Apple bookstore are restricted to the iBooks app on iPads, iPhones and iPods. In this way, these two DRM systems keep you, the consumer, in a tight triangle of DRM system-device-bookstore.

In Attwell’s view, DRM is not about copyright protection, as is claimed by device manufacturers and publishers.

“Don’t think of DRM as protecting intellectual property,” he says. “DRM is the main tool for securing market share.”

(To underline the point about market share, there are current, mainstream DRM-free books aimed at a market that has a low tolerance for DRM, such as readers of the science fiction and fantasy genres, Attwell says. Ebooks that are no longer under copyright are also available free of DRM.)

Most other e-readers – such as Barnes & Noble’s Nook, iRiver and Elonex – use Adobe DRM. If you opt to play in this eco-system, you have a significantly bigger choice, because you can buy from all those ebookstores out there that are not either Amazon or Apple iBook stores. You can also move titles from one Adobe DRM-enabled device to another.

This is the way to avoid obsolescence, Gerjo Hoffman, the senior category manager for e-content at kalahari.net, says. He calls it “going agnostic”.

He says kalahari.net is agnostic as regards device and format, so you can read your ebook downloads from the retailer on any Adobe DRM-enabled device.

Judge an ebook by its format

There is another level of compatibility to which you have to pay attention. The DRM system wraps around the format in which a title is published. The two important formats to be aware of are epub and PDF. “These have implications for which software you need in order to read the ebook and whether you can print, or copy and paste,” Attwell says.

“Compatibility is very confusing for consumers. My feeling is that retailers don’t tell consumers enough before they buy a book. I know few retailers that tell you if a book is epub or PDF, or whether it is encrypted with DRM.”

Since your access to your ebook is managed, this raises three questions: can you download a paid-for ebook again if you have lost your download or the device; can you lend copies of your ebooks to other people (other than lending the whole device); and what about privacy?

Downloads. You can download the same title more than once, although (you will hear this often) how and how often you can do this depends on the publisher.

Hoffman says that if you buy from kalahari.net, you can download your ebook three times. This can be to the same device or to three different devices, as long as you authenticate each device with Adobe. The T&Cs specify three downloads, but Hoffman says the number varies among publishers, and some allow up to six downloads per purchase.

The trouble is that the DRM information does not display when you buy any particular title, and kalahari.net does not keep track of the number of downloads per title, so you know that you have exceeded your number only when the title's download link disappears.

Lending. Barnes & Noble was the pioneer, and Nook users are able to lend a title to other people for a maximum of three times, for 14 days at a time. Now Amazon has joined the club, and Kindle users can lend a title once, to one person, for two weeks.

Hoffman says kalahari.net expects that buyers will be able to lend their ebooks sometime in 2011, although it depends on the publishers. In the meantime, kalahari.net’s T&Cs are quite clear: “[You] will not print, copy, or ‘lend’ ebooks to any other person. By downloading any ebook, you hereby acknowledge and agree to these terms.”

Privacy. It is the constant connection offered by 3G that gives Kindle pervasive reach into your life, and currently Amazon is alone in offering look-over-your-shoulder connectivity.

Attwell says Amazon can even see which paragraphs you highlight, and by identifying which passages most readers highlight in a popular book, for example, Amazon can be guided in its marketing efforts.

Attwell says that if you choose the Adobe DRM route, your connection with the retailer and publisher and everyone else in the chain occurs only at the point of download. As a result, the amount of data that can be collected about you and your reading habits is extremely limited.

Hoffman confirms that kalahari.net does not track consumption patterns.

“The thing is,” Attwell says, “the Kindle has done e-reading so well that this connectivity has become the benchmark for a great consumer experience.”

The future does not have to be a trade-off between features and privacy.

“It’s very likely that other e-reading applications will use always-on connectivity to collect information about your reading habits, but consumers will be able to opt out,” he says.

This article was first published in the 1st quarter 2011 edition of Personal Finance magazine.


sign up
 
AGX
I'm a 36 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 44.
View Profile
Sosialemeis2
I'm a 28 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 46.
View Profile
dreamsoftly
I'm a 49 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 47 and 58.
View Profile
Cymbidium
I'm a 47 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 47 and 60.
View Profile
Starlight_001
I'm a 35 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
SouthernLove
I'm a 23 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 26 and 35.
View Profile
lookingsexy200
I'm a 36 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 34 and 45.
View Profile
Veronica2477
I'm a 38 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 50.
View Profile
DaffodilTulip
I'm a 48 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 50.
View Profile
CLC_91
I'm a 23 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 35.
View Profile
Lisa_Jayne
I'm a 27 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 23 and 35.
View Profile
HeiN_018
I'm a 38 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
Roxyxxx
I'm a 43 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 43 and 50.
View Profile
PearlyGem
I'm a 55 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 50 and 60.
View Profile
Gypsey4Life
I'm a 51 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 50 and 62.
View Profile
Blondie953
I'm a 38 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
Katryn777
I'm a 34 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 34 and 40.
View Profile
Jimmyhgirl
I'm a 37 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 37 and 55.
View Profile
Jade_242
I'm a 46 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
Wonderer_0202
I'm a 42 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 52.
View Profile
butterflykisses14
I'm a 30 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 31 and 51.
View Profile
GirlInterruptedNow
I'm a 41 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 38 and 45.
View Profile
AmaJ
I'm a 44 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 42 and 50.
View Profile
kel3
I'm a 31 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 31 and 38.
View Profile
CC82
I'm a 32 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 45.
View Profile
KarooBoereMeisie
I'm a 34 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 40.
View Profile
Lvit2C
I'm a 29 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 27 and 39.
View Profile
sportliefhebber
I'm a 25 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 31.
View Profile
honkytonkwoman
I'm a 58 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 55 and 64.
View Profile
pesin15
I'm a 38 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 18 and 100.
View Profile
xine_414
I'm a 28 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 35.
View Profile
ThisIsTheRemix
I'm a 33 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 31 and 41.
View Profile
JustAnna
I'm a 39 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 55.
View Profile
blondgirl
I'm a 57 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 53 and 60.
View Profile
nads42
I'm a 42 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 38 and 58.
View Profile
MustLoveDogz
I'm a 33 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 33 and 43.
View Profile
ioio
I'm a 37 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
Comet43
I'm a 43 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 54.
View Profile
itu22
I'm a 22 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 37.
View Profile
Venus_001
I'm a 35 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 34 and 45.
View Profile
bon1bon
I'm a 35 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 29 and 40.
View Profile
Belind4_M
I'm a 19 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 19 and 30.
View Profile
soutenpepper
I'm a 25 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 37.
View Profile
voelkos
I'm a 54 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 56.
View Profile
Gem31
I'm a 24 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 35.
View Profile
limegreen48
I'm a 48 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
NY25
I'm a 25 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 30.
View Profile
ASJ
I'm a 41 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 50.
View Profile
naty677
I'm a 28 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 39 and 62.
View Profile
marlynkie
I'm a 22 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 23 and 29.
View Profile
Dreamer1987
I'm a 27 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 35.
View Profile
snowbird7
I'm a 33 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 31 and 39.
View Profile
MademoiselleMyGirl
I'm a 30 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 40.
View Profile
Kosmos075
I'm a 39 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 55.
View Profile
LuckyCharm_440
I'm a 29 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 29 and 40.
View Profile
findmemyman
I'm a 48 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 50.
View Profile
Sugababe
I'm a 41 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 32 and 42.
View Profile
Maybeperhaps
I'm a 40 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 33 and 44.
View Profile
TenderMoments
I'm a 48 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
Vinnette
I'm a 52 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
Rarefind
I'm a 54 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 52 and 63.
View Profile
Cat007
I'm a 46 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
Duifie038
I'm a 45 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 36 and 50.
View Profile
KayBee75
I'm a 39 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 49.
View Profile
Stella143
I'm a 35 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 34 and 45.
View Profile
RooikopBokkie
I'm a 52 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 52.
View Profile
bluemon
I'm a 30 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 45.
View Profile
love_passionately
I'm a 43 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
Lulu_101
I'm a 36 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 38 and 45.
View Profile
Sunshine_again
I'm a 46 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 43 and 58.
View Profile
Abs
I'm a 36 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 36 and 40.
View Profile
Ninks
I'm a 36 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 36 and 42.
View Profile
Foreverinhope
I'm a 48 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 56.
View Profile
angelface93
I'm a 21 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 21 and 29.
View Profile
Lemoenbloeisel
I'm a 35 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 45.
View Profile
Bluebell531
I'm a 46 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 60.
View Profile
RiaStar
I'm a 35 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 32 and 40.
View Profile
MrsRobinson
I'm a 37 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 36 and 45.
View Profile
Pretty_Nerd
I'm a 28 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 28 and 38.
View Profile
OneWay
I'm a 39 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 47.
View Profile
BMull08
I'm a 19 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 19 and 30.
View Profile
This_is_m3
I'm a 45 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 50.
View Profile
khosyx
I'm a 20 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 21 and 30.
View Profile
twinkle87
I'm a 27 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 28 and 45.
View Profile
AH1974
I'm a 40 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 40 and 48.
View Profile
iamclassy
I'm a 43 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 50 and 65.
View Profile
molletdelvalles
I'm a 39 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 55.
View Profile
Athena
I'm a 37 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 37 and 45.
View Profile
supe24
I'm a 34 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 35 and 65.
View Profile
MistressofBrand
I'm a 34 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 34 and 44.
View Profile
ShannaAK
I'm a 20 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 20 and 27.
View Profile
devotedlady
I'm a 43 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 43 and 55.
View Profile
_Alwayssmiling
I'm a 30 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 41.
View Profile
Livs_89
I'm a 25 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 38.
View Profile
Stiletto1
I'm a 53 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 50 and 57.
View Profile
PhoenixLin
I'm a 32 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 42.
View Profile
Gem24
I'm a 24 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 40.
View Profile
LilaBlom
I'm a 23 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 23 and 33.
View Profile
sunshinebright
I'm a 55 year old woman looking to meet men between the ages of 45 and 60.
View Profile
Padriac_1974
I'm a 40 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 45.
View Profile
Bushbaby210
I'm a 27 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 21 and 35.
View Profile
BobTheExtremeBuilder
I'm a 47 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 47.
View Profile
DeeeXx
I'm a 31 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 21 and 32.
View Profile
Dreamzzz
I'm a 48 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
OohCharles
I'm a 53 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 45.
View Profile
thesaltofthesea
I'm a 45 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 50.
View Profile
LiveLifeAlways
I'm a 43 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 33 and 41.
View Profile
Rebelinbluejeans
I'm a 62 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 62.
View Profile
Liefasb
I'm a 63 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 50 and 60.
View Profile
Eugene053
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 45.
View Profile
TheRealMrRight
I'm a 43 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 28 and 42.
View Profile
GenuineJ
I'm a 64 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 48 and 64.
View Profile
JustJve99
I'm a 47 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 45.
View Profile
cornrlius205
I'm a 46 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 50.
View Profile
philip_unplugged514
I'm a 62 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 50 and 68.
View Profile
JustCallMeBwana
I'm a 47 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 28 and 38.
View Profile
arew
I'm a 49 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 55.
View Profile
Pete_1
I'm a 70 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 55 and 65.
View Profile
PaulA79
I'm a 35 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 40.
View Profile
B_B_B
I'm a 43 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 45.
View Profile
Jurgy62
I'm a 52 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 37 and 55.
View Profile
Breukes
I'm a 35 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 26 and 35.
View Profile
DJStarglance
I'm a 51 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 100.
View Profile
chester3
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 49 and 76.
View Profile
MysticKitesurfer
I'm a 43 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 27 and 36.
View Profile
Stressfree
I'm a 58 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 42 and 52.
View Profile
RVCZ
I'm a 24 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 24.
View Profile
waitingforgodot
I'm a 68 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 53 and 60.
View Profile
Cruisingoldie
I'm a 46 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 50.
View Profile
heartroll
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 49 and 60.
View Profile
Moonrakker
I'm a 64 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 50 and 64.
View Profile
Gazza619
I'm a 37 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 32.
View Profile
cloudhopper
I'm a 56 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 45 and 55.
View Profile
Pottie16
I'm a 44 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
softtail
I'm a 50 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 48.
View Profile
Thebestone1
I'm a 57 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 48.
View Profile
Mais_171
I'm a 49 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 55.
View Profile
matiekat
I'm a 66 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 100.
View Profile
derrick_654
I'm a 56 year old man looking to meet men between the ages of 30 and 50.
View Profile
PerfectGentleman_700
I'm a 36 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 39.
View Profile
audiess
I'm a 50 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 39 and 64.
View Profile
Geard1977
I'm a 37 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 26 and 40.
View Profile
GideonVisser
I'm a 30 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 24 and 29.
View Profile
rossi46
I'm a 66 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 55 and 65.
View Profile
fordby
I'm a 45 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 46.
View Profile
Newdreamz
I'm a 49 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 37 and 46.
View Profile
Rumrun
I'm a 56 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 44 and 56.
View Profile
gentlebutcrazy
I'm a 58 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 55.
View Profile
Rich_H
I'm a 48 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 48.
View Profile
bellagio
I'm a 69 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 55 and 65.
View Profile
skyandsand
I'm a 31 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 35.
View Profile
Lifechanger_7
I'm a 25 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 30.
View Profile
Boereman
I'm a 52 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 52.
View Profile
boersoekvrou14
I'm a 39 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 42.
View Profile
oth1982
I'm a 32 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 100.
View Profile
Fairtalk101
I'm a 46 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 37.
View Profile
Brad88
I'm a 52 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 45 and 60.
View Profile
letslook
I'm a 46 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 45.
View Profile
TheRisingSun
I'm a 41 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 40.
View Profile
ekke_706
I'm a 50 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 55.
View Profile
Determined_69
I'm a 45 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 47.
View Profile
CapeLover
I'm a 49 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 41 and 50.
View Profile
anandr
I'm a 57 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 38 and 65.
View Profile
Ben_57
I'm a 57 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 42 and 55.
View Profile
Virion
I'm a 30 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 33.
View Profile
longingforu
I'm a 35 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 38.
View Profile
Woody777
I'm a 50 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 55.
View Profile
LoveFriendFirst123
I'm a 56 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 50 and 72.
View Profile
Marley77
I'm a 37 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 28 and 35.
View Profile
saks001
I'm a 61 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 49 and 60.
View Profile
koolstoof55
I'm a 59 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 45 and 63.
View Profile
TheDuke_99
I'm a 36 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 28 and 42.
View Profile
Banker009
I'm a 56 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 34 and 49.
View Profile
deeptime
I'm a 53 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 48 and 58.
View Profile
Abeachboy
I'm a 51 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 38 and 48.
View Profile
shadowwarrior
I'm a 59 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 41 and 55.
View Profile
MLACOME0147
I'm a 55 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 49 and 79.
View Profile
Summerstorm_007
I'm a 60 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 48 and 58.
View Profile
WanderingShadow
I'm a 39 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 20 and 40.
View Profile
happymaker66
I'm a 48 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 45.
View Profile
tigercat
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 22 and 54.
View Profile
WagOngeduldig
I'm a 41 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 45.
View Profile
Teddiebeerpa
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 50.
View Profile
Gerrie1
I'm a 67 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 50 and 60.
View Profile
plodof
I'm a 58 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 55.
View Profile
Gster1
I'm a 64 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 45 and 60.
View Profile
ch_nb
I'm a 28 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 18 and 45.
View Profile
LEO1982
I'm a 32 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 24 and 40.
View Profile
Espavo
I'm a 50 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 30 and 48.
View Profile
Kawa1000
I'm a 49 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 50.
View Profile
thearchitect1
I'm a 46 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 36 and 70.
View Profile
polar1970
I'm a 44 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 25 and 45.
View Profile
Double_N
I'm a 41 year old man looking to meet men between the ages of 25 and 50.
View Profile
Kent123
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 45 and 60.
View Profile
TheRealPeterPan
I'm a 35 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 28 and 35.
View Profile
Parmos1
I'm a 64 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 55 and 63.
View Profile
IceDad66
I'm a 48 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 35 and 45.
View Profile
M0J0
I'm a 34 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 23 and 35.
View Profile
FeaturedProfile
I'm a 54 year old man looking to meet women between the ages of 40 and 54.
View Profile