Johannesburg -
Mpofu then asks why can Zondo not do all those plans as DCJ? He asks why do you need to be CJ to do those?
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says if he is not appointed, he will support whoever gets the job, says he has high respect for all his colleagues @IOL
He says even after former CJ left after serving 10 years, there were still things that could have been done. They leave with things that need to be continued or changed. He repeats his earlier remark that he can make a big impact in the 2.5 yrs @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says that no one who will take up the CJ job will be new. He says unless there is a situation where the JSC knows what needs to be done will take x amount of years, "that may be a different situation". @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
After sharing a light moment with Zondo, Mpofu asks him to convince the JSC not to see his 2.5 remaining years at the apex court as a disadvantage @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says he has accepted completely that other people may take a different view and "that is ok" @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo agrees and says he certainly does not feel a press conf needs to be called each time the profession is insulted but he and his colleagues felt "particularly strongly" in relation to Sisulu's OPED @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Mpofu says in the area of leadership, he wants to give some free advice. When a leader, you will be insulted. "You don't have to call a press conference every time you are insulted," Mpofu says. @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Mpofu asks in relation to leadership and people skills, which part of Min. Sisulu's opinion piece did he find offensive?@IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
He is asked, upon reflection, whether he thinks it was still appropriate in calling a press conference to respond to Sisulu's letter. He said he consulted the other 3 CJ candidates and others and he spoke carefully @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo is asked by Commissioner Magwanishe for his view on state advocates and prosecutors acting as judges? Zondo said his understanding was that they have always preferred independent practitioners or magistrates @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo is asked how would he want his legacy to b remembered? He says he is not so concerned about how he would remembered but is more concerned about what would be his contribution. He says he was not so interested in labels @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
WATCH LIVE FEED HERE
PART 2
JSC interview: Raymond Zondo called to answer on Arthur Fraser’s no-show at state capture inquiry
Johannesburg - Acting Chief Justice Raymond Zondo’s interview for the Chief Justice position has been used as a platform to call the judge to explain why he did not compel former spy boss Arthur Fraser to appear before the state capture commission.
Some commissioners including Bulelani Magwanishe and Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula questioned Justice Zondo who on why he did not subpoena Fraser to testify on the allegations against him.
Zondo said that part of the problem with Fraser was that he seemed like he did not want to follow the processes of the State Capture Commission.
Zondo said Fraser wanted to be treated outside of the rules and it was important to note the time in which a decision on Fraser could be made.
Read the full story here
WATCH: I am not pro-Ramaphosa, says Raymond Zondo during his Chief Justice interview
Johannesburg - Acting Chief Justice Raymond Zondo has been in the hot seat at the Chief Justice interviews for about five hours now and it is no surprise that his decisions and approach at the state capture inquiry has been brought into focus so far.
During Zondo's lengthy legal career he has served in several courts including the Labour and Supreme Court of Appeal and was part of a task team that developed the draft legislation on labour relations for post-apartheid South Africa in 1994.
This saw the passing of the Labour Relations Act of 1995.
He told the Judicial Services Commission (JSC) that many of his judgments “have stood the test of time” and he was proud of his career.
Read the full story here
#ChiefJusticeInterviews adjourns for lunch. It will resume at 3pm @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo said Notyesi must be careful not to send a message to other judges who are approached to Chair Commission's to turn it down in fear of reviews and adverse effects on their career trajectory @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
JSC Commissioner Notyesi asks if Zondo would consider his appointment as Chairperson to Inquiry a s an enhancement of his leadership and running for CJ job?
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says yes, while some criticise how he chaired it, others praised and he would hope the JSC considers it @IOL
Zondo says he did not think about it from that angle. He says in deciding on the 3-part series release of the report was not intentional that Ramaphosa findings would not be in Part 1/2. He says it was just a matter of what was completed and nearly completion @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Malema asks about the release of the final report that may implicate Pres CR. He asks why was CR's findings not included in the reports already released to avoid the issue that CR may feel obligated to give Zondo the job. "Is that not a sword on the neck of the President?" @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Malema said Fraser was leading a strategic institute of the state and monies are thrown around from the state coffers and he is not compelled to answer. Malema says but Zizi Kodwa was called to answer for R1m @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Malema accuses Zondo of giving deliberately long answers in an attempt to avoid directly answering the question on Fraser. He asks why didn't the Commission compel Fraser to come and answer as a former accounting officer @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Video: Timothy Bernard/African News Agency (ANA)
He said if Fraser came earlier, it would have been better @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo said if he decided to call him for oral evidence, it would mean that he would have had to reopen the oral evidence in October. He could implicate people that were not implicated before then the Inquiry would have had to be further extended to allow them right of reply @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
But Zondo said Fraser wanted to be treated outside of the rules. He said the more imp thing was the time in which a decision on Fraser could be made. In March he did not have the docs and he never came back to Zondo to say he did not get the docs @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says part of the problem with Fraser was that he seemed like he did not want to follow the processes of the Commission. Fraser says Zondo did not want him to testify bcz it would disturb the alleged narrative Zondo was heading to @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
WATCH LIVE FEED HERE
Commissioner Mapisa - Nqakula says the allegations against Fraser was damning and asks why didn't the Commission see it fit to summons or subpoena him instead of the "to-ing and fro-ing" @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Commissioner Mangwanishe asks Zondo why he didn’t feel it prudent to summons Arthur Fraser when there were such serious allegations against him.
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo repeats the submission process and doesn't really answer @IOL
He adds that he would make findings against Ramaphosa if there is enough evidence. He said the evidence needs to justify the findings whether it is against CR or JZ @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Video: Timothy Bernard/African News Agency (ANA)
Zondo says that CR gave evidence at Inquiry and with this job, you have to accept that you make enemies and that you make findings against anyone. He says if there is enough evidence, findings would be made. He says he made findings against Zuma because evidence justified @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says Fraser did not come back to the Inquiry to complete his statement despite not having the documents he wanted @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo said it remains a mystery why someone who says these docs are so crucial to their evidence did not pursue them. He says Fraser gave the inquiry an incomplete statement and did not want to play according to rules of the inquiry @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Now dealing with Arthur Fraser's objection, Zondo says he often had media briefings where he invited those with knowledge of state capture to come forward and assist the Commission @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says he doesn't think they place any facts to support what they say when they accuse him of being pro-Ramaphosa. He says he is not pro or anti-anybody. He refers to his decision that CR must appear before the #statecaptureinquiry @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Singh refers to some other objections against Zondo nomination. Some objections accuse Zondo of Zuma-bias. He refers to an objection by former spy-boss Arthur Fraser @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says in this time, he can also make a number of contributions in terms of transformation. He adds that there is also a good reason why the President's term in office is 5 yrs. He says you don't want a Pres for too long without seeing progress @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo goes on to say that a number of things he wants to deal with are things that don't need many years to achieve, incl. dilapidated state of courts. @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says former CJ Sandile Ngcobo had less time and he was able to implement and see through a big and important part of his vision, incl getting former Pres Zuma to agree to establish the OCJ as a national department @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Singh goes on to say there are many elephants in this room. One is concerns if Zondo is able to implement all his visionary plan with the short time he has in the ConCourt @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says after appointed as state capture inquiry Chair, former CJ Mogoeng consulted him on lots of leadership matters and allowed him to not really sit in many court matters to allow him to balance his duties with the inquiry and courts @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo responds to Tlaletsi's question of whether the DCJ should be part of the heads of court. He says he was part of the heads of court close to 11 yrs when part of labour court. He says DCJ should be part of heads of court and he would invite that if appointed CJ @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Lamola asks how would Zondo deal with issues of misconduct of colleagues who he knows very well? @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Justice Minister Lamola asks how would Zondo rollout the modernisation and digitalisation of courts if apppointed.
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says he may not be very good with IT but embraces it wholeheartedly and would want to see it rolled out across all SA courts asap @IOL
#ChiefJusticeInterviews has resumed.
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
#ChiefJusticeInterviews has adjourned for tea. Chair Petse has noted 18 JSC Commissioners who are ready to ask Zondo questions after the tea break. Zondo jokes that it is "intimidating" @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo has concluded his 30 mins presentation. Chair Petse has now opened the floor to the JSC commissioners to ask Zondo questions @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo speaking about the appointment of more females. He says he recommended Justice Khampepe as acting DCJ. Says he wants to make his contribution in transformation by getting black and female judges in involved in spaces that used to be exclusive to whites and males @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo says he would retain such structures and rather make a contribution to make them work better @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
He says there are committee's in all provinces whose main task is to identify anything that negatively impacts the courts and can take action in addressing the issues. JP's informed Zondo that overall these committees work well @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
He says if appointed, he would not want to start anything "all over". Says he has been a member of judiciary for long, knows of the measures in place. Says former CJ Mogoeng put in structures to enhance the courts efficiency which was embraced @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Video: Timothy Bernard/African News Agency (ANA)
if appointed, he says, one of the issues he would want to deal with early in his term is to complete the institutional model for the administration of the courts @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondonsays CJ should be someone of integrity, has demonstrable track record as a judge and should be someone who is able to work with people and appreciate the contribution of other leaders in the judiciary, CJ must make contribution to jurisprudence of SA @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo will now be given 30mins to make his case on why he should be the next Chief Justice. Here he will share his vision for the Judiciary and how he would implement if appointed @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo is asked about his participation in the 1st judges conference & the decision that it would happen every 5 yrs. Zondo says that there were budgetary constraints. He says q's arose as to why they couldn't go to Plan B and ask heads of court to gather views and share @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Chair Petse talks to some of Zondo's ConCourt judgments that he penned. Petse says he himself read and quoted in his own judgments. He says they all bear the hallmarks of "intellectual vigour" etc @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo is currently talking about his Labour Appeal Court ruling in the Nehawu vs UCT case.
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo has been talking about some of proudest judgments that "stood the test of time", as he describes it @IOL
He has just a little over two and half years in active service left before the end of his term of office in the ConCourt.
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Zondo shares that he received an award from a KZN organisation of legal lawyers recognising his significant contribution in human rights @IOL
Going through his particulars, Zondo confirms he is married with eight children. He holds 5 degrees acquired between '93 and 2012. He was appointed as a judge at age 37 and has been in active service as a judge for 25 years - which he celebrated a few days ago @IOL
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
Acting Chief Justice Raymond Zondo has arrived at the conference room where his #ChiefJustice interview will begin shortly @IOL pic.twitter.com/aaF3c5W3n7
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
JSC Commissioners are settling in as they prepare for the last day of the #ChiefJusticeInterviews
— Kailene Pillay (@kailenepillay) February 4, 2022
ACJ Raymond Zondo is in the hot seat today @IOL pic.twitter.com/BhKvNvIHqi
Acting Chief Justice Raymond Zondo is the fourth and last candidate to be interviewed by the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) for the top job as the country's next Chief Justice.
Zondo, who held the title of Deputy Chief Justice, started acting in main role last year when former Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng took a leave of absence and subsequently retired in October.
He is no stranger to the media limelight as he is the outgoing Chairperson of the highly publicised Commission of Inquiry into State Capture.
It was earlier this week that he released the second portion to his highly anticipated report.
Zondo is no stranger to South African politics when he took a decision to call a media briefing to respond to Tourism Minister Lindiwe Sisulu's remarks on the judiciary in a published article.
WATCH LIVE FEED HERE
Zondo said the article was rich in insults and poor in substance because it did not refer or speak to the issue warranting the attack on the judiciary.
“There is no analysis of anything in that article. It is just accusations and insults of the judiciary, " he said.
This surprise move for a judge to call a media briefing to respond to remarks made in the political arena hardly ever happens and will surely be a hot topic for the JSC Commissioners to question him on during his interview.
Zondo, who is now 61 years old, is also expected to face some tough questions and attitudes from some Commissioners since holding the fort at the State Capture Inquiry.
Zondo's lengthy legal career shows that he served in various courts, including the Labour and Supreme Court of Appeal.
He was also part of a task team that developed the draft legislation on labour relations for post-apartheid South Africa in 1994.
This saw the passing of the Labour Relations Act of 1995.
He became a Constitutional Court Justice in August 2012 and was later appointed Deputy Chief Justice in June 2017.
Political Bureau